SPADONI&CANNONI

Free wargamers and Rules&Games


Non sei connesso Connettiti o registrati

Arcole

Vedere l'argomento precedente Vedere l'argomento seguente Andare in basso  Messaggio [Pagina 1 di 1]

1 Arcole il Mar Mar 08, 2011 5:42 pm

Questo quanto trovato nel wab per quanto riguarda la Battaglia di Arcole
adattabile facilmente al regolamento Shako2 ,unico dubbio se si trattano
di dati attendibili, qualcuno ha notizie piu precise o diverse da poter confrontare???



Astrian Forces
General Baron Joszef Alvintzi
Corps Commander : General Peter Vitus von Quosdanovich

General Baron Anton Mittrovsky

Colonel Brigido
Carlstädter Grenz : 1st Battalion (600)
Warasdiner Grenz : 1st Battalion (600)
Banal Grenz : 4th Battalion (600 Poor)
Banal Grenz : 5th Battalion (600 Poor)
Erdody Hussars : (240)
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-3pdr)

General Baron Anton Mittrovsky
IR#27 (Strassoldo) : 3rd Battalion (400)
IR#25 (Brechainville) : 1st Battalion (400 Veteran)
IR#25 (Brechainville) : 2nd Battalion (400 Veteran)
Combined Grenadiers : (300 Elite)
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-6pdr)

General Marchese Giovanni Provera


Lt. Colonel Count Alois Gavasini
IR#51 (Spleny) : 1st Battalion (600 Veteran)
IR#51 (Spleny) : 2nd Battalion (600 Veteran)
IR#60 (Gyulay) : 1st Battalion (600 Veteran)
IR#60 (Gyulay) : 2nd Battalion (600 Veteran)
Erdody Hussars : (240)
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-6pdr)

General Baron Adolph von Brabeck
IR#19 (Alvintzi) : 1st Battalion (600 Veteran)
IR#19 (Alvintzi) : 2nd Battalion (600 Veteran)
IR#21 (Gemmingen) : 2nd Battalion (600)
IR#40 (Mitrovsk) : 1st Battalion (500 Poor)
Wurmser Hussars : (240)
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-6pdr)



French Forces

General-in-Chief of the Army of Italy : Général Napoleon Bonaparte
Général André Masséna

Général Jean-Joseph-Magdelaine Pigeon
11th DB Légère : 1st, 2nd Battalions (900)
18th DB Légère : 1st, 2nd Battalions (800)

Général Jean-Joseph Guieu
18th DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (900)
14th DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (800)

Général Claude Perrin Victor
75th DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (800)
32nd DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (900)

Artillery
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-8pdr)
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-6pdr)


Général Pierre-Francois-Charles Augereau

Général Victoire-Emmanuel Leclerc
5th DB Légère : 1st, 2nd Battalions (900)
12th DB Légère : 1st, 2nd Battalions (900)

Général Robert
4th DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (800)
40th DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (800)
51st DB Ligne : 1st, 2nd Battalions (800)

Artillery
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-8pdr)
Foot Artillery : Battery (6-6pdr)

Cavalry
1st Hussars : (160)
Guides : (160 Elite)

Reserve Cavalry held at Ronco and not used (2000)





Ultima modifica di Il Giglio il Sab Dic 10, 2011 9:12 am, modificato 1 volta

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

2 Re: Arcole il Sab Mar 12, 2011 6:30 pm

Ho chiesto aiuto all'amico Michael Hopper del gruppo Shakò di Yahoo che, dopo aver consultato la sua quasi alessandrina biblioteca su Napoleone mi ha dato le seguenti "dritte":

The battle of Arcole:

I started with Digby Smith's "Napoleonic Wars Data Book" which lists casualties for all the main engagements of the Napoleonic Wars, as well as a high level overview of the regiments engaged.

French
Army Commander: Bonaparte

Augereau: 6 LI; 6 REG; 2 SK MR: 4/6/9B
1/2/3/4th DemiBrigade of Leger
1/2/3/18th DemiBrigade of Leger
1/2/3/39th DemiBrigade of Ligne (Line)
1/2/3/69th DemiBrigade of Ligne (Line)

Massena: 9 REG: 3 SK MR: 3/5/7B
1/2/3/19th DemiBrigade of Ligne (line)
1/2/3/85th DemiBrigade of Ligne (line)
1/2/3/93rd DemBrigade of Ligne (line)

The book does not indicate how many artillery pieces were present.

The French also have Macquart's Infantry Reserve and General de Brigade Beaurevoir's Cavalry Reserve. The book does not mention the strength or type of regiments that were in either Reserve formation. It just states the Reserves were not engaged in the fighting.

The total estimated strength of the French army (including the reserve) is 20,000 men.


Digby Smith's book (page 127) has the following information pertaining to the Austrian army.

Commander: Baron Alvintzy

Corps of the Friaul
1/2/4th Regiment (Deutschmeister)
1/2/24th Regiment (Preiss)
3/36th Regiment (Kinsky)
3/4/53rd Regiment (Jellacic)
2/57th Regiment (Colloredo)
6/7/Carlstadt Grenz
5/6/Banater Grenz
4/5/Warasdiner Grenz
2/4/Banalisten Grenz
2/3/51st Regiment (Splenyi)
3/Wallachen Grenz

Meszaros Uhlans (4 squadrons)
Stabs Dragoons (4 squadrons)

The Austrian army totalled 18,500 men.

According to the summary notes Digby Smith provided, the battle was fought in flooded rice fields with movement restricted to the few roads and dykes. A single Grenz battalion held up all French attempts to force the bridge at Arcole for two days.

The Austrians had 600 killed, 1,600 wounded, 4,000 captured. The Austrians lost 11 artillery pieces (guns) and 4 ammunition wagons. One of the senior Austrian brigade commanders was Major-General (or General-Major) Baron Brabeck. Brabeck was killed.

The French had 1,200 killed, 2,300 wounded. Generals Robert, Verne, Elliot, Gardanne, Lebon, Muiront, Verdier and Vignolle were all killed.

The Austrians appear to have had 10 line battalions and 9 Grenz battalions, as well as 2 cavalry regiments and artillery.

I am guessing the line battalions are 1,000 men each, so 10,000 men. I am guessing the Grenz regiments are approximately 700 men each, or 6,300 men. If the cavalry had 125 or 150 men per squadron then the Austrians had approximately 1,000-1,200 cavalry plus artillery crew and support staff.

In all there are 21 Austrian combat units (10 line battalions, 9 Grenz battalions and 2 cavalry regiments). If you were to just use the French battalions that were engaged in the battle historically, the French have 21 battalions I previously listed (6 light and 15 line battalions). I don't have information on the French artillery.

I checked one of my books, "The Road to Rivoli" by Martin Boycott-Brown. Pages 438-481 talk about the campaign specific to the battle of Arcola.

Page 444 indicates the Austrian Friuli Corps was divided as follows:

1. Advanced Guard: Prinec Hohenzollern with 5 battalions, 7 squadrons of cavalry totalling 4,397 men.
2. Provera was in command of the main corps. The main corps was divided into two formations (divisions?).
1. Generals Roselmini and Lipthay commanded 8 battalions and 2 squadrons which totalled 9,380 men.
2. Generals Schubirz and Brabeck commanded 8 battalions and 1 1/2 squadrons which totalled 8,279 men.
3. General Pittoni commanded a reserve brigade of 4 battalions and 1 squadron which totalled 4,376 men.
My recommendation for a Shako game is to divide the army into 4 formations under the command of Hohenzollern, Lipthay, Brabeck and Pittoni.

Page 445 indicates the corps had 54 line guns and 20 reserve artillery pieces.

I read part of the narrative and many of the Austrian battalions had more than 1,000 men, including Grenz battalions. The manpower strengths are from a couple weeks before the fight at Arcole Bridge. During the weeks preceding Arcole, many Austrian battalions suffered a couple hundred casualties each, from fights at Bassano and skirmishes with various French brigades.

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

3 Re: Arcole il Sab Mar 12, 2011 8:35 pm

Altro materiale da Michael

http://www.napoleon1er.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2326&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=arcole&start=0

- French web site which talks about the bridge being made of wood (bois)

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/virtual/c_arcola.html

- virtual tour of the battlefield

The following information is from an internet article showing the Austrian "divisions that were engaged" before the battle. Quadanovich was replaced as commander in chief.

# Friaul Corps: FML Peter Quasdanovich (28,699)

* Advance Guard and Reserve:
o Advance Guard: GM Friedrich of Hohenzollern-Hechingen (4,397)
o Reserve Brigade: GM Philipp Pittoni (4,376)
* Main Body, 1st Line: FML Giovanni de Provera (9,380)
o Brigade: GM Gerhard Rosselmini
o Brigade: GM Anton Lipthay
* Main Body, 2nd Line: FML Provera (8,279)
o Brigade: GM Anton Schübirz
o Brigade: GM Adolf Brabeck
* Independent Brigade: GM Anton Mittrowsky (c. 3,000)

The French organization before the battle included a number of divisions. Since only Massena's and Augereau' divisions were engaged, I will just provide their information.

# Division: Andre Massena (9,540 including 2 cavalry regiments)

* Brigade: Jean Ménard
* Brigade: Antoine Rampon
* Brigade: Honoré Vial
* Brigade: Jean Pijon
* Brigade: Charles Leclerc

# Division: Pierre Augereau (8,340 including 1 cavalry regiment)

* Brigade: Jean Verdier
* Brigade: Louis Bon
* Brigade: Jean Lannes

I have read some of the narratives from Martin Boycott-Brown, and the French regiments engaged at Arcola do not match the previous order of battle I provided to you, from Digby Smith's book. This makes me wonder if Digby Smith's quotation is wrong. I need to read more before providing an answer so if you post the order of battle on you web site it will likely be wrong. I will contact a couple friends of mine who have much larger libraries of books on the Napoleonic Wars and see what they can find.

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

4 E' ora il Sab Dic 10, 2011 9:16 am

E' giunto il momento di fare questa battaglia,la preparo per Piquet Field of Battle,è abbastanza contenuta e offre una gamma di situazioni limite adatte per testare a fondo il sistema, movimenti repentini,terreno frammentato, assalti, ponti, fiumi e quant'altro rendono difficoltose le manovre.
Non avendo una deguata preparazione sul periodo adotterò la tabella per la generazione casuale dei valori delle unità e comandi, ma sempre inerente all'anno e periodo.
Suggerimenti ben accetti dai professionisti del sistema.

Questo è quello che è stato generato tramite tabelle random.


consigli? suggerimenti?


Vedere il profilo dell'utente

5 Re: Arcole il Sab Dic 10, 2011 10:23 pm

Oltre ai mazzi Aggiungerei anche 2 carte "Size the moment" al mazzo Francese ed una carta "Blunder" a quello austriaco.

Per il resto mi sembra tutto Ok, Buon divertimento Very Happy

Vedere il profilo dell'utente http://gmbs.org/gmbs/

6 Re: Arcole il Dom Dic 11, 2011 10:26 am

A cosa servono qaueste carte che non trovo nella traduzione?

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

7 Blunder & Seize The Moment il Dom Dic 11, 2011 5:25 pm

Dovresti averle a pagina 44 e 45 dove si parla delle carte opzionali.

Dovresti trovarle anche nelle carte che ti ho inviato, se non ci sono probabilmente hai una copia non aggiornata (fammi sapere alla mia email).

La Blunder non permette di agire ad un comando (usata x eserciti con comandanti scarsi), la Seize the Moment è una Wildcard validaper un comando (Usata per eserciti con comandi efficienti).

Ciao

Vedere il profilo dell'utente http://gmbs.org/gmbs/

8 Arcole il Mar Gen 10, 2012 7:07 pm

Mi chiedevo se era meglio giocare la battaglia di Arcole con Field of Battles fra noi S&C infrasettimanalmente o fissare a Curtarolo una Domenica per un gioco multiplayers in cui possano partecipare tutti, come la demo effettuata tempo fa sempre a Curtarolo.

Hanno risposto positivamente alla partecipazione:
Spadoni&Cannoni
Club di Fossalta Bologna
GMBS di Faenza

basta proporre una data che vada bene a tutti

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

9 Arcole a Firenze il Sab Gen 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Il previsto scontro di Arcole con FOB verrà eseguito a Firenze in primavera, data da decidere presso l'associazione Fiorentina AFBIS o altro luogo.
Per cui da Aprile in poi tutte le date sono papabili, sotto con le adesioni prenotazioni proposte.

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

10 Re: Arcole il Dom Gen 29, 2012 7:40 am

Io aderisco! Very Happy

Vedere il profilo dell'utente

11 Re: Arcole Oggi a 9:56 am

Contenuto sponsorizzato


Vedere l'argomento precedente Vedere l'argomento seguente Tornare in alto  Messaggio [Pagina 1 di 1]

Permesso di questo forum:
Non puoi rispondere agli argomenti in questo forum